(Msg. 16) Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:25 am
Post subject: Re: Roman empire strategy game [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: comp>sys>ibm>pc>games>strategic (more info?)
"Leo" wrote in message
> On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 15:26:54 -0700, Sheldon England
> blabbed:
>
>>Ross Ridge wrote:
>> > Playing a few throw away games where you're just doing stuff to
>> > see what happens and not worrying much about winning might help.
>>
>>This is good advice. I will try a few sessions to see what damage I can
>>do ... but I'll be back with questions!
>>
>>
>>Nats wrote:
>>>
>>> So stick with it and just mess around for a couple of nights.
>>
>>Yeah ... I usually tinker with new programs/games first to see what is
>>what and only look at manuals if I can't figure something out (which is
>>fairly rare). This is the first time I have been shut down.
>>
>>I will keep at it. The blood of my enemies will eventually flow.
>>
>>Thanks for your replies.
>>
>>
>> - Sheldon
>
> Paradox forums gave me some good info that wasn't in the
> manual or strat guide. Lurking around there learned me up good. I
> kinda wanna go try victoria out now after seeing their forums, but I
> don't even have enough time for the games I have so I'm going to
> resist the urge, rome does well enough for me.
>
> Leo
Victoria....wow....micromanagement heaven. I loved the world trade aspect
too. Great game.
(Msg. 17) Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 2:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Roman empire strategy game [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
"Sheldon England" wrote
> Ross Ridge wrote:
> > Playing a few throw away games where you're just doing stuff to
> > see what happens and not worrying much about winning might help.
>
> This is good advice. I will try a few sessions to see what damage I can do
> ... but I'll be back with questions!
>
> Nats wrote:
>>
>> So stick with it and just mess around for a couple of nights.
>
> Yeah ... I usually tinker with new programs/games first to see what is
> what and only look at manuals if I can't figure something out (which is
> fairly rare). This is the first time I have been shut down.
>
> I will keep at it. The blood of my enemies will eventually flow.
Hi Sheldon,
I decided to try this one too. If you've never played any EU-engine games
then it would have been a ridiculous learning curve, I'll admit. I have a
few hundred hours of Crusader Kings under my belt, so I understood most of
the basic mechanics like moving armies, building buildings etc.
I couldn't find any PDFs at all anywhere on my CD, so I downloaded a
"strategy guide" from replacementdocs - but it seems like a third-party
thing, which is good but not comprehensive (doesn't cover all the buttons
etc.). Can anyone post a link to the "proper" PDF manual? And is there one
for Vae Victis??
The thing I can't work out about EU:Rome so far is the invasion, or rather
"colonisation" of barbarian provinces. Consider this: to capture a province
from another empire, you
- get casus belli
- declare war
- beat them up enough that they accept your peace terms
- insist that the province is given to you as part of the peace terms
(It took me weeks to work that out in CK so don't worry if it doesn't seem
obvious.) Now, by contrast, if I understand correctly, to capture a
barbarian province you:
- meet the stringent conditions for colonisation (population >10, civ >50)
- click the "colonise" button
So, we have two completely different methods for acquiring provinces. Not a
problem per se. But consider the consequences of each: when you get a
province by conquest, its output is added straight to your empire. When you
colonise a barbarian province, it takes *decades* to recover the population,
which means a real hit on income, research etc. Multiply that by several
provinces and it seems to me that I'll conquer every enemy province on the
map before I've done more than colonise a handful of barbarian provinces
(especially as many nations start with civ well below the required 50, and
cannot do any colonisation at all for the first 40 years!). This just seems
totally wrong: empires of that age grabbed barbarian lands precisely because
it was a quicker return on investment of resources than subduing
neighbouring empires and integrating their people. I'd expect to take
barbarian provinces at three or four times the rate that I conquer
neighbouring empires.
So please, EU:Rome experts, what am I missing here? Paradox games are
renowned for their historical accuracy, so I must have misunderstood
something somewhere. (This doesn't arise in CK as there are no 'barbarian'
provinces - every province is owned by some nation or other. I believe the
same is true in the EU1/2/3 series.)
(Msg. 18) Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 2:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Roman empire strategy game [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
And for immersion try reading Rubicon by Tom Holland its about the Republic
and is great reading.
"Sheldon England" wrote in message
> Ross Ridge wrote:
> > Playing a few throw away games where you're just doing stuff to
> > see what happens and not worrying much about winning might help.
>
> This is good advice. I will try a few sessions to see what damage I can do
> ... but I'll be back with questions!
>
>
> Nats wrote:
>>
>> So stick with it and just mess around for a couple of nights.
>
> Yeah ... I usually tinker with new programs/games first to see what is
> what and only look at manuals if I can't figure something out (which is
> fairly rare). This is the first time I have been shut down.
>
> I will keep at it. The blood of my enemies will eventually flow.
>
> Thanks for your replies.
>
>
> - Sheldon
(Msg. 19) Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Roman empire strategy game [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:27:01 +0100, "Magnate"
blabbed:
>"Sheldon England" wrote
>> Ross Ridge wrote:
>> > Playing a few throw away games where you're just doing stuff to
>> > see what happens and not worrying much about winning might help.
>>
>> This is good advice. I will try a few sessions to see what damage I can do
>> ... but I'll be back with questions!
>>
>> Nats wrote:
>>>
>>> So stick with it and just mess around for a couple of nights.
>>
>> Yeah ... I usually tinker with new programs/games first to see what is
>> what and only look at manuals if I can't figure something out (which is
>> fairly rare). This is the first time I have been shut down.
>>
>> I will keep at it. The blood of my enemies will eventually flow.
>
>Hi Sheldon,
>
>I decided to try this one too. If you've never played any EU-engine games
>then it would have been a ridiculous learning curve, I'll admit. I have a
>few hundred hours of Crusader Kings under my belt, so I understood most of
>the basic mechanics like moving armies, building buildings etc.
>
>I couldn't find any PDFs at all anywhere on my CD, so I downloaded a
>"strategy guide" from replacementdocs - but it seems like a third-party
>thing, which is good but not comprehensive (doesn't cover all the buttons
>etc.). Can anyone post a link to the "proper" PDF manual? And is there one
>for Vae Victis??
>
>The thing I can't work out about EU:Rome so far is the invasion, or rather
>"colonisation" of barbarian provinces. Consider this: to capture a province
>from another empire, you
>
>- get casus belli
>- declare war
>- beat them up enough that they accept your peace terms
>- insist that the province is given to you as part of the peace terms
>
>(It took me weeks to work that out in CK so don't worry if it doesn't seem
>obvious.) Now, by contrast, if I understand correctly, to capture a
>barbarian province you:
>
>- meet the stringent conditions for colonisation (population >10, civ >50)
>- click the "colonise" button
Pretty much, you must also have a province adjacent to the
barbarian province and have to get the barbarian power down to 1. I
haven't tried any mods yet, perhaps there are some that change the
this around. According to the manual, it helps to have a governor in
the adjacent province w/high martial. High
finesse/charisma/popularity, it goes on to say, 'may' factor in as
well. I don't know how it decides which province to transfer
population from, but it takes 10 pop from 'one' of your provinces.
When you can colonize the colonize button becomes available, but not
just to you, also to any other player that meets the requirements, so
they can snatch it from you when you did the work at making it
available. After you have colonized, and event will eventually fire
allowing you to 'assimilate' the population.
As to historical accuracy, I figured it was just a game
mechanic to prevent the whole early game from being a rush for all the
players to fill up the barbarian territories. Plus, these days, the
state of the 'barbarians' in the roman era seems to be the subject of
some renewed debate, so their depiction might be innaccurate in all
sorts of ways.
There are 3 pdf's I have associated w/the game. A manual, was
installed in the 'program files' menu system that I almost never use
or look at in Vista (program files -> paradox interactive -> rome eu).
I got the game via stardock, it often installs manuals in just such a
way, so nowadays I look there for a manual for any game I get through
them. There's a small vae victis thing that lists some of its changes
(its tiny). And a 3rd party strat guide that is probably the same one
you are talking about (its available in the paradox forums, but you
can only see the sub-forum its located in if you register).
(Msg. 20) Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 11:42 am
Post subject: Re: Roman empire strategy game [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
Magnate wrote:
>So please, EU:Rome experts, what am I missing here? Paradox games are
>renowned for their historical accuracy, so I must have misunderstood
>something somewhere. (This doesn't arise in CK as there are no 'barbarian'
>provinces - every province is owned by some nation or other. I believe the
>same is true in the EU1/2/3 series.)
There's actually a lot of unowned provinces to colonize in the Europa
Universalis series. I haven't played EU3, but in EU1 and EU2 it's a
relatively quick process (it normally takes five to ten years to colonize
province to the point where it produces taxes), but like most things
in the game it can take a long time for your investment to pay off.
It's also not hard for it to be a net drain on your enconomy, so often
building trading posts is a better idea. You can colonize any coastal
provice you've discovered (otherwise it needs to be next to you own),
so if you're playing one the colonial powers you can easily have colonies
all over the word. The big limitting factors are that you need discover
the provinces first, initially only certain units can explore, and that
you only get a few colonists a year.
(Msg. 21) Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:25 am
Post subject: Re: Roman empire strategy game [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
"Leo" wrote
> On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:27:01 +0100, "Magnate"
> blabbed:
>>"Sheldon England" wrote
>>> Ross Ridge wrote:
>>> > Playing a few throw away games where you're just doing stuff to
>>> > see what happens and not worrying much about winning might help.
>>>
>>> This is good advice. I will try a few sessions to see what damage I can
>>> do
>>> ... but I'll be back with questions!
>>>
>>> Nats wrote:
>>>>
>>>> So stick with it and just mess around for a couple of nights.
>>>
>>> Yeah ... I usually tinker with new programs/games first to see what is
>>> what and only look at manuals if I can't figure something out (which is
>>> fairly rare). This is the first time I have been shut down.
>>>
>>> I will keep at it. The blood of my enemies will eventually flow.
>>
>>Hi Sheldon,
>>
>>I decided to try this one too. If you've never played any EU-engine games
>>then it would have been a ridiculous learning curve, I'll admit. I have a
>>few hundred hours of Crusader Kings under my belt, so I understood most of
>>the basic mechanics like moving armies, building buildings etc.
>>
>>I couldn't find any PDFs at all anywhere on my CD, so I downloaded a
>>"strategy guide" from replacementdocs - but it seems like a third-party
>>thing, which is good but not comprehensive (doesn't cover all the buttons
>>etc.). Can anyone post a link to the "proper" PDF manual? And is there one
>>for Vae Victis??
>>
>>The thing I can't work out about EU:Rome so far is the invasion, or rather
>>"colonisation" of barbarian provinces. Consider this: to capture a
>>province
>>from another empire, you
>>
>>- get casus belli
>>- declare war
>>- beat them up enough that they accept your peace terms
>>- insist that the province is given to you as part of the peace terms
>>
>>(It took me weeks to work that out in CK so don't worry if it doesn't seem
>>obvious.) Now, by contrast, if I understand correctly, to capture a
>>barbarian province you:
>>
>>- meet the stringent conditions for colonisation (population >10, civ >50)
>>- click the "colonise" button
>
>
> Pretty much, you must also have a province adjacent to the
> barbarian province and have to get the barbarian power down to 1. I
> haven't tried any mods yet, perhaps there are some that change the
> this around. According to the manual, it helps to have a governor in
> the adjacent province w/high martial. High
> finesse/charisma/popularity, it goes on to say, 'may' factor in as
> well. I don't know how it decides which province to transfer
> population from, but it takes 10 pop from 'one' of your provinces.
> When you can colonize the colonize button becomes available, but not
> just to you, also to any other player that meets the requirements, so
> they can snatch it from you when you did the work at making it
> available. After you have colonized, and event will eventually fire
> allowing you to 'assimilate' the population.
I've done a little more playing, and the critical discovery is that you
*don't* lose 10 pop when you colonise. As best as I can follow what happens,
you lose three or four from the sending province. This makes the recovery
quite a bit easier, and the new colony starts paying for itself much sooner.
The problem remains that as well as 10 pop you need a "civ" rating of 50 to
colonise a neighbouring province. So once you've colonised your immediate
neighbours, you have to wait for *them* to reach Civ 50 before you can
colonise further. This takes forever, because most barb provinces start at
civ 35, and accrue more very slowly (<1%/yr).
It is still quicker to conquer other nations, which feels wrong.
> There are 3 pdf's I have associated w/the game. A manual, was
> installed in the 'program files' menu system that I almost never use
> or look at in Vista (program files -> paradox interactive -> rome eu).
> I got the game via stardock, it often installs manuals in just such a
> way, so nowadays I look there for a manual for any game I get through
> them. There's a small vae victis thing that lists some of its changes
> (its tiny). And a 3rd party strat guide that is probably the same one
> you are talking about (its available in the paradox forums, but you
> can only see the sub-forum its located in if you register).
Yes, I'm pretty sure the one on replacementdocs is the one from the paradox
forum. Thanks for the tip about the installed ones - I'm pretty sure I
didn't see it but will double check tonight.
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